izHere

Shipmaster Scout Mines

iia t aii

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Total Posts: 11
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03-14-2017

Hello everybody IIA T AII here and this is my first post on this forums. I am a Halo Wars 1 Veteran and first the first year was top 10 in 3v3 in that time. I do remember playing against a lot of you guys though. Anyway hello all. I have tried to post on the Halo Wars 2 Halo Waypoint forums and the reddit forums, but they seemed to be filled with people who don't understand the game. I have also noticed that threads about shipmaster and the Leader Power glitch get deleted. I assume this is so that people don't use it, alas I have run into leader power glitch more than once. I now play a lot of 1v1 and 2v2. I recently ran into a double Shipmaster while playing with a friend. I found one of his early expansions and began to attack it with my first four marines after a few seconds they all blew up instantly. I never saw a scout mine drop. Then my teammates base began to lose two buildings at a time. The game went on for awhile but on cooldown we would either lose a large chunk of army. Scout mine seems to kill every unit around scout mine instantly when dropped. Is there anyway to counter this? Is this really working as intended? This seems almost as gamebreaking as leader power glitch and both glitches are not being talked about anywhere that I can find. I am going to test out specifics when I get home tonight but I was wondering what you guys thought on the subject.

Uc Gollum

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03-15-2017

I'm fairly certain I faced you the other day. Perhaps that sparked this, although I'm not sure if my friend was running Shipmaster. Either way, I've been running this for a while now and am pretty experienced with it. From the user side of it, there are a lot of factors that can lead to a failed Scout Mine, but the enemy likely won't realize they've thwarted it. Here are a list of ways Scout Mine will fail to deal damage: - Non-aggroed enemy units will instantly shoot the mine upon drop. - Stray damage destroys the mine (eg, artillery fire, flamethrowers?) - Scarab steps on the mine (prior to arming... I think). - Cyclops steps(?) on the mine (prior to arming... this one definitely needs testing) - Detect units (eg Snipers) either reveal and destroy the mine, or they are simply idle, thus targeting the mine. - Positioning over enemy base is slightly off, pushing the mine onto the outer edge of the base (may or may not still detonate). Ultimately, moving and/or spreading units out will minimize damage from the Scout Mine, as well as provide more opportunities for it to be simply shot down. If someone wants to bomb your base, they need to tank your turrets and units long enough for the Scout Mine to drop and arm (probably 2 seconds or so). A Tier 1 Scout Mine will destroy unupgraded pads. A Tier 2 Scout Mine will destroy upgraded pads (I think increasing building health via armory/war council prevents one-shotting). Also, I've only played a few other Shipmasters recently, but I'm fairly certain I've seen the Scout Mine drop, as well as heard the sound. I'm not 100% on that though.

iia t aii

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Total Posts: 11
Total Chips: 205
03-15-2017

I'm fairly certain I faced you the other day. Perhaps that sparked this, although I'm not sure if my friend was running Shipmaster. Either way, I've been running this for a while now and am pretty experienced with it. From the user side of it, there are a lot of factors that can lead to a failed Scout Mine, but the enemy likely won't realize they've thwarted it. Here are a list of ways Scout Mine will fail to deal damage: - Non-aggroed enemy units will instantly shoot the mine upon drop. - Stray damage destroys the mine (eg, artillery fire, flamethrowers?) - Scarab steps on the mine (prior to arming... I think). - Cyclops steps(?) on the mine (prior to arming... this one definitely needs testing) - Detect units (eg Snipers) either reveal and destroy the mine, or they are simply idle, thus targeting the mine. - Positioning over enemy base is slightly off, pushing the mine onto the outer edge of the base (may or may not still detonate). Ultimately, moving and/or spreading units out will minimize damage from the Scout Mine, as well as provide more opportunities for it to be simply shot down. If someone wants to bomb your base, they need to tank your turrets and units long enough for the Scout Mine to drop and arm (probably 2 seconds or so). A Tier 1 Scout Mine will destroy unupgraded pads. A Tier 2 Scout Mine will destroy upgraded pads (I think increasing building health via armory/war council prevents one-shotting). Also, I've only played a few other Shipmasters recently, but I'm fairly certain I've seen the Scout Mine drop, as well as heard the sound. I'm not 100% on that though. You are the one that sparked this. You weren't using the mines to their full potential. Also I believe what you are doing is on par with cheating it is just as bad as starting with two leader powers. In fairness you should stop. The ability seems to have a radius and damage off by a factor of at least 10. Also you think it's fair that all the enemy has to do to destroy every supply pad on your base is tank your turrets and units for 2 seconds? The leader power is basically free.... Here are my test results copy pasted from the message I sent to the developer. I didn't edit so bare with. You can find my videos on my xbox live profile under capture here: https://account.xbox.com/en-us/Profile?xr=socialtwistnav I will upload to youtube later tonight once I figure out how. I was going to post this on the forums but if this gets out it will RUIN the game until fixed. Please respond to let me know you got this message and are aware of this issue. I don't want to bring attention to this on the forums because it could ruin the game. I literally just spent the past 30 minutes testing out the scout mine with my friend. The scout mine is visible for the first 3 seconds, but it is UNTARGETABLE by you. You can see it but you cannot issue your marines or units to attack it. Your marines will attack it but only if they are not attacking another unit. All a Shipmaster has to do is make sure the enemy units are engaged before dropping the mine and the mine cannot be attacked. This works if a marine is attacking a building or another unit. Now let's talk about the cost and devastation these mines can cause. The level one mine costs 25 power and 75 energy and is available at level two. I took 21 marines and engaged his army he dropped the mine in the middle of my marines. I attempted to click on it for 3 seconds and then 20 of my marines were instantly dead. 20 marines for 25 power and 75 energy. It does not matter if you have detection because YOU cannot target the mines only unengaged marines can. The AI will not not have your marines attack the mines unless they are already unengaged. Now lets talk about what it does to bases. A level 2 scout mine destroyed ALL my supply pads and took all the other buildings down to a sliver. Again the mines were untargetable and if my turrets were already engaged they would not target the mine. The watch tower also does not reveal invisible units or mines (but I think you already knew that. If you want the video I have it up on my xbox live profile as my most recently uploaded videos. If you can't access them that way let me know and I will upload to xbox live. I did a test and a tier 1 mine will destroy upgraded pads. In fact a tier 1 mine will destroy an upgraded base with upgraded pads.

iia t aii

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Total Posts: 11
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03-15-2017

Just to add even if I do stop the mine by one of your suggested routes (although stepping on it doesn't help if the mine is in the middle of the base) what have you lost? The mine costs 25 power and 75 energy and has a 90 second CD. So if you mess up and don't destroy half my army or ALL THE SUPPLY PADS ON MY BASE. You can repeat the process 90 seconds later. There is no risk to doing it. There is no counter play. Only if the Shipmaster himself messes up and does not engage the units will the scout mine not work. How can this mechanic be fair? Either way since so many people are disagreeing that this is broken on multiple forums me and my friend will be running this tonight. I seriously doubt we will lose a match. Prepare to lose all supply pads at 2 minutes.

Uc Gollum

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Total Posts: 9
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03-15-2017

For whatever reason my reply wasn't processed, so this'll be a bit less detailed. Perhaps I was misplacing or testing something that game, but the max base damage is, like you mentioned, 7 (all) pads. Obviously that's quite high. Watchtower + Turret would be a nice counter if it enabled mines as top target priority. For deterring Ghost-Scout Mine harass, turrets and some infantry will kill the Ghost and then swap to the Scout Mine prior to detonation. For deterring an army meant to tank everything, try to fight the army before they reach your base. Or bring the fight to their base. Try to force Scout Mine usage elsewhere, split up your army to minimize damage potential. If you're UNSC, marines are currently the answer to pretty much everything. Jackrabbits also work, but lack the grenade ability for bursting down turrets when you reach their base. ODST are also pretty devastating in their own right, with C4 performing a role similar to the Scout Mine (albeit with faster cooldown and less overall damage, not to mention the initial impact stun from the ODST ability). If a group of 5 Grunts are being teleported in purely for the purpose of tanking, that at least brings the cost up to 575 supplies & 300 power, with two infantry-countering powers on cooldown. If that attack fails, perhaps due to an un-aggroed unit sitting behind the base, then they are left reasonably vulnerable to a push. As far as 'fairness' is concerned, this tactic is counterable - it simply leaves the opponent feeling slighted. Should things be changed? Probably. But with the current balance, it only puts Shipmaster on par with Forge/Cutter, although honestly that's a difficult metric. At this point, we've left the Scout unit spam phase, entered the Marine spam phase, and now this is the next thing to be explored. It'll soon be realized that Marines/UNSC infantry are still better - given mild micro. This is, of course, assuming no balance changes. If you can sift through the claims of every new tactic being overpowered on the main boards, legofan has a few good analyses of the Scout Mine, as well as the tradeoffs accrued by investing heavily into it over other powers.

metaloid

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Total Posts: 15
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03-15-2017

Pretty sure I could beat UNSC infantry with shipmaster with clever use of teleports.

Uc Gollum

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Total Posts: 9
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03-15-2017

Yea, I admittedly haven't been utilizing suicide grunt teleports, but with my most recent attempts it's been pretty strong... Most games just haven't required good suicide grunt usage on my end (it's more me just throwing it in there to see the effects). It's probably in Shipmaster's favor but I just don't have the experience to say otherwise.

upstartvessel

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03-16-2017

Scout Mine, pure skill 400 APM.

the co1e train

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03-16-2017

^^^hilarious

ESL Legit

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03-16-2017

Oh give it a rest Covi is fucking useless besides this glitching bullshit with the mines, this UC golam guy took all my pads at 3min because he did the scum bag leader point glitch. Try again next balance patch they suck balls. Pretty sadistic this guy cheats to win, you want Covi and to actually win with them copy this pricks shit. He had lvl 2 infinity range and lvl 2mines at 3min. Real pile of shit to abuse that.

Mike BEASTon

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03-16-2017

How does the leader point glitch help scout mine at all?

ESL Legit

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03-16-2017

The skill point glitch stacks towards your next passives/skills so when he does the scout mine he's unlocking stuff you normally wouldn't have till around 8-9 min approx and he's getting that stuff around 5min. He's getting cheap advantages and abusing the game because he's a little bitch. When you should have 4passive/skills open he's got 8 because he's a abuser and when you unlock 2 at a time you unlock 2 categories so he's got the full wheel unlocked almost by 5-6min if done properly. UC golam ur scum and a cheat.

ESL Legit

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03-16-2017

His grunts have lvl 2 vision and lvl 2 scout bombs at Same time and he's unlocking stuff that should be here around 8-9 min at 5-6 or sooner he's the biggest cheat in the game making shipmaster super OP

metaloid

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Total Posts: 15
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03-16-2017

Leader point glitch does not affect scout mine, it sounds like you are just salty.

Uc Gollum

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Total Posts: 9
Total Chips: 145
03-16-2017

This ESL Legit guy lol. If we want to get childish I could post our conversation history, but lets just say he lost in a 1v1 game and didn't take it well. No, I did not abuse the Leader Point glitch. Also, my username is right there! Uc Golam?

iia t aii

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Total Posts: 11
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03-16-2017

Gotta love the person leader power glitching, and using clearly broken mechanics childish.

Uc Gollum

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Total Posts: 9
Total Chips: 145
03-16-2017

Clearly this thread has outlived its usefulness in terms of a continuing discussion. I mostly responded for the more rational-minded around here to read, assuming they hadn't tested it themselves. Hopefully some will find the earlier information useful post-patch when Scout Mine is mainly used mid-battle. Edit: By the way, how many attempts did it take to butcher your insult?

upstartvessel

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03-17-2017

UC i don't even know why you're on this forum.

Uc Gollum

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03-17-2017

I'm not surprised. The idea of a discussion can be hard to understand for those who create accounts merely to flame.

l The Rudy l

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03-19-2017

Well... thanks at least for the tips on how to work around it until it's fixed.

metaloid

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03-19-2017

I've really only been playing atriox since people have been doing it and I just upgrade my pads and use an engineer to heal them up and by the time they have the tier 2 scout mine, I'm already shielded.

izHere